how to install foam board insulation in basement

To attach the insulation, you can use screws with large washers, a special adhesive made for adhering foam board insulation or, for smaller pieces, you can seal them in with caulk or spray foam. No interior vapor barriers should be installed in order to permit inward drying. Next, liberally apply an adhesive as suggested by the manufacturer. Maybe a few mice that look like lizards, but I digress. Given its the lowest 2 feet, you probably don't even need to replace it unless you have a walkout basement. Consider a penetrating concrete sealer. Step 2 It has been a huge help. 2. PolyISO foam does not have to be covered, but double check with your local building code. If it were me, I'd move that top plate out and use fiberglass insulation for your application. Oh, and yes, you generally use the foam in a can to seal at the bottom and top of the foam boards. The coldest sustained temps might be the 20-30s. Let's take a look. Would this be a correct statement? Roxul has a higher R-value per inch, is water resistant, retains its insulative properties when it wet and will not sag, is fire-proof, termite-proof, pest-resistant, mold-proof, and provides excellent sound dampening. The correct method of using rigid foam is to run continuous 4-foot by 8-foot sheets of the foam across the concrete basement wall, making the rigid foam the de facto wall. I skimmed this page and didn't see this - so sorry if it's already been mentioned. Try to keep the seams tight. If insulating on the inside, using rigid foams like high density EPS isn't a bad thing because they are more permeable and some air movement through the concrete isn't such a bad thing. I am planning to use 3 inch XPS, 2 x 8 sheets (the distributor does not have 4 x 8 sheets in stock). You can't just throw any ole insulation up. And if you did this, run the first layer horizontally and the 2nd layer vertically (or vice versa). I was thinking about using 2 inches of XPS in that area and then only using one inch of XPS on the basement walls in the areas that are more protected from the exterior by the internal garage and wrap around front porch. I intended to finish the basement fairly quickly and had one side framed in , but that's as far as it got. I used about 1 tube per sheet of XPS. We are planning a "themed" basement, that will look like an ancient temple or tomb, ala Indiana Jones. I plan on insulating with XPS. My typically sized basement took about 35 sheets. XPS - a.k.a Extruded Polystyrene - a.k.a Rigid Foam Board: This is what I installed, and the topic of this article. Todd, I agree with your theory. but I'd install that (ComfortBatt) instead of fiberglass. Hey guys! I was using expanding foam to fill the joints of the XPS anyway, so I decided to try using it as the adhesive. But it's not pest-proof (no foam is), tho the foil can help. Second, there is a lot of air exchange happening in that spot with the cold outside air and the warm inside air. Interestingly, this type of insulation can fit on any part of your house, ranging from the bottom to the top. And it’s less expensive. How many 4x8 insulating boards will you get with one tube? You don't want cold water vapor to meet warm air. Todd, what do you recommend for a basement wall where I have pipes basically right on the wall. Before advising people on these issues, you should know what climate zone they are in and what the local min building codes are beforehand. Larger gaps (where unavoidable) can be filled with expandable foam. After re-grading and extending downspouts, we have not had any rain issues in basement. The graphite offers greater R-value than regular EPS at R-5 per nominal inch but in a thinner product. - Jason. Problems arise when people don't insulate properly and/or use the wrong products for their application/ situation. Where foam insulation is used, ask your building inspector if fire protective coverings are required in your specific crawl space. #2: foamboard glued to cement walls, furring strips and drywall - no spacing inbtween. Certainly a bit higher on cost, but if your budget allows it, its provides an excellent insulating option and peace of mind. So, you want: concrete, XPS, fiberglass insulation or empty void, dry wall, paint. Should we just cut the nails so that the surface is flat for the XPS, or is there a better recommendation? I did not install the batting insulation however. I had to strap them to the roof of our Pilot. I intend to apply Owens Corning Foamular 2 inch to interior concrete block basement walls. Thanks a lot for your insight on this. Can I put XPS on the joist over existing batt? I don't know. between the 2x4s and the concrete. You then must apply the vapor barrier (all sealed with acoustic sealant + tuck tape) followed by a 1/2" layer of drywall. The remaining 1/4 is the laundry area, furnace and storage. After the rigid foam has been applied to the wall, apply pressure for 30 seconds. Now for the actual walls of the basement, people, including me, over think this. I've seen a few different vids with different techniques. If I have to use XPS, I would have a gap due to the 2x4 top plate. Constructed from top-quality materials, the product will serve you for an extended period. Read here for more info on fire blocking. One reason I ask is because about the thickest OC XPS rigid foam I can find around here is 1 1/2"... Can I install 1 in XPS then FG in the bays against osb? Again, in colder regions, it's most definitely advisable to then put up a 2x4" wood stud wall spaced 24" OC with a pressure treated base plate. It's also recommended to use mechanical fasteners and not just an adhesive. You are correct that there are a lot of issues with vapor barriers and condensation, which I explained in my previous comment above. If I put a 2” thick board of XPS up on my walls first, that gives me an R-value of 10, this means I need to put in additional insulation of R3 to R5 to achieve the recommended level. it looks like a good way to save space. Read up on it on Build Science Corp's website. Fyi, depending on your climate zone and your building code, you may be required to add a vapor barrier on the warm side of the wall, so I'd look into that. Frame an interior 2x4 stud wall at 24 inch centres, pressed tightly against the foam panels. Do you know how XPS rigid foam boards perform in a crawlspace, where the home is pier and beam? #1: 2X4s an inch away from cement walls, no insulation and drywall on top. I'm trying to find any products that can retard mold/mildew from growing in hidden places. Other: There are other forms of insulation like loose-fill which is usually blown in or the sprayed in foam type. I have read conflicting approaches to this. - Adam. here's a great video from This Old House. I'm thinking about the foam board and not sure if its an option for something preframed. Great info! Dodd you find a solution? Diy How To Install Basement Insulation. You could use thinner XPS, they come in many sizes, but just remember the thinner you go, the small the R rating. It also offers continuous insulation, greater R-value and won’t lead to mold growth. Treat joist spaces as described in Section 6.2.2, How to frame and insulate inside the basement. I'm not sure how to properly remove the 2x4s, though. If so, how? Average cost for a 4'x8'x2'' sheet was $30/sheet. I am thankful that I detected this web site, just the We'd like to put the rigid insulation up, but do the framing & wallboard in the warmer weather. Keep in mind that XPS is a flammable material, so you’ll need to install a thermal barrier—a half-inch of gypsum board should do the trick. Any help would be great appreciated! If I want to save room and only put up a sheet of 1” thick board then I get an R-value of 5 for the board. I believe the author also mentioned that about a tube per board was good. Like drywall, install full pieces covering windows and later once the adhesive is fully cured, come back and cut out your openings with the drywall saw. I will be removing all the fiberglass insulation in my rim joists and replacing it with a piece of XPS that will be sealed with expanding foam around the edges. This is the first step that I will need to do and thought I would just pass on what I have learned and what I am planning on doing. Why can't the drywall (basement board) be glued directly to the POLYISO board? I plan on attaching 1 inch foam board insulation to the concrete wall and seal all seams with tuck tape. To learn more about this method please read this basement insulation article. (your good one, not that fakey one you have for male enhancement pills), I hate spam, your email is safe. You said that "If you live in a colder climate (like Michigan, Canada or the North Pole)" you will want to add 2" of rigid foam insulation between the concrete and the studs. You're about to get a new friend, me! Also seal the foam at top and bottom seams with a small bead of canned foam. - I have added about 4 cu yards of dirt around the exterior of my house to help the water flow away. and it has so many better qualities over fiberglass. Any suggestion on what to do here? Lastly, your foam wall will need to be sealed in with a thermal (fire) barrier like drywall to meet fire code. My plan is to finish off about 3/4 of the basement area. Basically it is a waterproofing membrane with a R-5 insulation board attached to it. I am at a halt before I can start drywalling. We are keeping our ceiling open in our basement with our floor joists exposed. - Jason. And not to keep repeating myself on this forum but there is a lot of misinformation going around... your local code may require a vapor barrier so look into that... but the spray foam classifies as one. Now that I think about it a little bit more, I have a feeling it has to do with the fact that in the vicinity of the door, it may be much colder outside because it is not under ground. I'll never use fiberglass batt again! mortar, cement patch, caulk, etc.) So, my sheets will be glued and screwed to the poured concrete foundation wall. What is best pratice? Foam board insulation is easy to cut with a circular saw with a masonry blade or scored with a utility knife and snapped like you would drywall. Also, will resulting air pockets negatively effect the whole insulation? I'm sure there are other adhesives that COULD work, but they make one specifically for applying foam board. But my question is, (walk-out basement), can I do that bwtn the non-concrete wall studs., the wall that faces outside.? Cam XPS foam board be used to replace sheetrock/drywall in a below When you are looking for polystyrene eps insulation board, think Halo! Your email address will not be published. This is actually the main cause of mold in basements. Thanks! Don't be stingy with the adhesive. Hi Kathy - Sorry, I can't really advise on that issue specifically. I argue peace of mind. Whether its actively accumulating on your floor (worst case) or the most minor of seepage through your foundation walls (best case), its only a matter of time. Hi. - First off, I made sure there was no moisture problems to begin with. Finish the job with some tyvek tape across the joints. So, answerman... am I right? I live in Northern Virginia. XPS foam must also be covered with drywall as per fire code and I wouldn't recommend putting drywall directly on top of the foam. My question is for my house being in Zone 4, is placing Roxul R-15 in the stud bays of the above grade basement rooms a good idea, or even necessary? Cut the strips to fit between floor joists using a box cutter. Would you still use a batt insulation with a vapor barrier? I had to make multiple trips to HD to get the 30+ sheets home. Do you use waterproof paint (dryloc) on the concrete before the XPS? I figured the R10 XPS would do the trick for me. And if your method adheres to your local building code, then you should install furring sticks between the foam and your drywall, so as to leave a small air gap between the two. When installing the foam, use caulk or tape for maximum insulation between the material and the board or floor. Good luck! Thanks! Does it make sense to put the rigid board in pieces around the pipes? However, using a GPS rigid foam like Halo® Interra® doesn’t require attachment via cap nails, staples, etc. My question is: I see some are "faced" and some "unfaced". Blanket Insulation: This is very common mainly because it is very cost effective. We are going to finish the basement and remove all of the old insulation (we've seen some small skinks/lizards hiding in there as well as on our porch), and we want to use XPS boards along the walls before studding out and drywalling. Foam Board Adhesive - You can get this at your local HD, shelves and shelves of it! Unlike the fiberglass insulation, it will not hold the water needed for mold to develop and spread. Living in the moderately warm climate of Virginia and not having any obvious moisture concerns and a limited budget I opted to just use what was there. Walls are insulated and dry walled. I am planning on using Dow Super TUFF R glued to my basement walls, with 2 x4 framing up against the TUFF R. I wanted to use THERMAX, but can't find locally. One to two inches of rigid foam will be a solid moisture deterrent. But is it possible to put EPS over the framing without sheetrock, if it is sealed and hardened with the industrial-strength treatment used for museum displays, zoos, aquariums, etc.? Then, repeat the process. I don't know the best answer by maybe having a professional come in and spray foam it is the best option, and I'm guessing you'll need at least R15 or so. A wet towel also works however you must ensure that the walls are dry before proceeding to Step 3. I've also used this method for doing the sill plate / rim joist. This is more for esthetics than insulation benefit. I'm in NJ. But moisture is always in cement/cinder block. Aside from any other wall treatments you want to do (I highly recommend reviewing my interior waterproofing article) the prep work basically involves making sure you have a clean dry surface. Depending on the level of insulation needed the stud cavity may be insulated with fiberglass or mineral wool. I would remove the 2x4s before installing the XPS. Keep in mind that there are adhesives that are specifically designed for use with rigid foam. Fyi, contrary to popular belief, XPS can actually absorb water; albeit, a small percentage relative to its weight. Many come with tongue and groove joints but either way I recommend putting a bead of polyurethane or acoustic sealant or spray foam between each panel and around the wall parameters and sealing all seams with tuck tape. 1. Basement Foam Board Insulation. Thanks Chris. Hey Edward - I would just seal the concrete slab, Drylok is a good option. Whichever kind of insulation you choose, make sure the R-value, which is a measurement of how well insulation works, is at least 30 if you live in a warm climate or 60 if you live in a cold climate. Is this true?? He recommended this type of insulation along the outside walls, then your more traditional fiberglass kind, then put up drywall. I debated over this very point for my basement as well and since I was finishing my basement in the winter, it was good timing for a test. You should also use a combination of appropriate foam adhesive and mechanical fasteners. I am in the pre-planning phase of finishing my basement. Foam board has various thickness and R values. Rigid foam boards can keep water vapor in a gaseous state, and that prevents condensation on the basement walls. Any tips on how to insulate and frame a basement over the membrane? So unfortunately my contractor and I have parted ways, and he's got my money. There are different kinds of foam boards. Read up on the Building Science Corp website and find info about homes built like yours and for your climate zone. It came with a 30 year warranty. You could also put up 1/4 plywood if you're trying to keep the cost and weight down. Are we creating any hazards for fire, mold, etc.? I had no problems applying the XPS to my painted walls. Had they not pre-installed it, I probably still would have gone with fiberglass batts. I'm going to rebuild the bottom part of the wall and am not sure what to do for insulation. Is the foil faced rigid board the PolyISO that you mention? The foam boards must be cut exactly to fit the area where it will be installed. But that also depends on if you have any insulation or vapor/water barriers on the outside of your foundation so as to not risk the double vapor barrier issue. Thanks, My recommendation would be to use fiberglass batting between the studs. Thanks. After re-grading and extending downspouts, we have not had any rain issues in basement. The benefit is that the fiberglass won't be coming into contact with the concrete and the XPS is acting as a vapor barrier, so you avoid the inevitable mold issue with fiberglass coming into contact with the bare foundation wall. I plan to install laminate flooring. Basement Foam Board Insulation Cons: If the joints between the sheets and boards is not taped properly the insulation will not prevent airflow. Which did you use? The first thing I learned, and probably one of the things most people overlook in trying to make their basement more comfortable, is that you need to insulate the rim joists. Read up on BSC website and find other credible sources like building organizations and government sites, and can't hurt to speak with your local building inspector and get info from them. I have been said that the XPS is flammable. The ideal Basement wall assembly to prevent mold growth: Install two inches of rigid insulation board directly against concrete. And if your house is a newer construction it probably has exterior foundation insulation and other water barriers, so depending on what those are, using XPS in the interior may not be the best choice. Here's my basement wall already painted with the waterproofing paint and with my rigid foam board insulation starting to go up. I have spent more time thinking about the best approach to insulating my basement than any other part of the project. Use Insulation Foam Boards [XPS or Polyiso] Install 2″ insulation foam boards in a vertical orientation, tight to the floor and top of wall or joist bay. I'll cover it with 1/2" drywall and framing pushed right up against the XPS. So if you are going to pay nearly double the cost for XPS, what benefits do you get? You don't need a tremendous amount of pressure - just something to keep the board in place and firmly up against the wall. When this ignition barrier is supported on a stud wall, the cavities of this wall may be filled with supplemental insulation. It comes down to four basic steps: Using a broom brush or a shop vac, clean the walls so they are free of any debris. One, how to hold it against the uneven wall and dampness & water being trapped behind the rigid insulation. If using rigid board or spray foam insulation, follow the approach as outlined for the inside of a basement (see Section 6.2, Insulating the basement from the inside). Secondly, a simpler solution would have been to install 2 layers of 1" instead of one layer of 2" because they can bend and conform to uneven walls easier. ]. Either way, the gaps have to be sealed and the R-value difference is only about R1.7... but the polyISO doesn't technically require a fire barrier. They had a rodent problem so I had to tear all the old insulation out. For attaching to the walls, I plan to use some adhesive, but also use plastic fasteners, probably two per sheet. Good luck! When I moved in a gutted the entire basement and now I am finishing it. Hi Jason, I am a Midwest (MI) resident with both egress windows and daylight windows in my unfinished basement. It's enough to make your head spin! How do you insulate a basement with rigid insulation? Signing you up... Come on internet,it\'s GO TIME! They are 1890's large stones with 2-4" irregularities in depth along the surface. And, again, depending on your climate zone you may need additional insulation between the studs. First place a layer of 1-1/2" closed cell foam insulation board against the basement walls using a manufacturer's recommended adhesive. Apply sealant to edges of xps and don't need to tape? I would recommend going back and sealing them with some sort of hydraulic cement and toping it off with a fresh coat of waterproof paint. I had it waterproofed (french drain, dimple matting, and waterproofing paint) but the paint is only halfway up the wall. Again, incorrect advice. I live in the Northeast. - I have already installed a backup sump pump with battery backup. We dont get many lizards in Chicago. The following is a great example of proper DIY basement insulation. The rim joist area seems to be the main area where the coldness comes through. I live in northern Ontario where winters are cold. It's crazy how much energy is lost for the relatively little area that's there. Is that normal should there be a sealant or some sort of there? And fyi, people seem to be so unaware of this, but depending on your climate zone you may be required by code to also install a vapor barrier on the warm side of the wall, so check with your local code. I want to finised my basement but my question are 1st one wall is supported with metal support beams, 2nd i want to seal the wall with 1/2 inche thickness 4'x8' pink insulation foam along with the fiber insulation but not sure if the 1/2 is good enough? I need some help please. Thanks a ton. I am planning my basement remodel. Here at Concord Carpenter we strongly recommend using Closed Cell spray foam to insulate a below-grade basement wall. Read here for more info on fire blocking. Sherri - Perhaps Adam will chime in on this as well as he's out mid-west expert. Not because of the weight, but the size is awkward to transport. Thus, there will be about a two-inch gap between foam board and wallside of stud. From what you described, at this point it doesn't make a whole lot of sense financially or functionally to go with XPS. Secondly, when installed directly onto basement walls, foam provides a continuous layer of insulation without cracks and crevices. You, Question: Im about to finish my concrete basement walls. Can I put 2 layers 1 1/2 inch XPS to give an R-value of 15 with no fiberglass. The foam insulation panels are usually made of polyurethane, polyisocyanurate, and polystyrene. Thanks guys! Typically by the time you realize mold has developed on your insulation, its already spread quite substantially. If you live in a cold climate, then yes, I'd insulate all of the walls. The first step in insulating a basement wall is to install the polystyrene Good luck! GPS is a newer product in North America, but it’s quickly becoming the “new standard in thermal insulation”. After the rigid foam has been applied to the wall, apply pressure for 30 seconds. Using rock mineral wool like Roxul should keep pests out (considered pest-resistant and insects like termites hate it, but they will burrow thru foam!) What do you recommend using on the floor? We are not planning on framing, drywalling, etc. All we wanted was to make the walls look nice and not be so cold, and throw down a piece of outdoor carpeting. Or none of it and the xps is enough insulation? If so, can I apply paneling to it? Then we build a stud wall which holds the foam board in place but also provides room for wiring and HVAC. 4. It is easiest to attach it to the wall with a couple of concrete nails or even some adhesive while you frame walls. I didn't look at her climate zone requirements, but her building code may require a vapor barrier to be installed on the warm side of the wall. Put in 1" of XPS foam between joists and seal joints with spray foam. The rigid closed-cell foam is installed in large sheets, usually no less than one and one-half-inches thick, over the entire surface of the foundation wall. Hello, could I use 3/4" rigid foam board on my basement walls then build a stud wall and then put fiberglass insulation between the studs plus another vapor barrier? Trying to wrap my head around it all... Jen - Sorry had a brain fart there - not 1.5'' should be 3.5" Was thinking of the 2X4 in the wrong direction. It can be installed on the exterior of the foundation walls, but in order to be effective, needs to be installed to the full height of the wall which means protecting the above grade portion. http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/how-insulate-basement-wall. 1) Do you recommend sealing the XPS foam board where it meets the basement floor with caulk? You can use bleach to kills the mold and there are procust like Mold Off or something like that. Please let me know your thoughts. Obviously a good chunk of change. The last thing I want is to deal with mold/mildew issues. There is a This old house video on Youtube that show how to attach 1X3 inch strips to the XPS wall. The first year of owning the home, there was a few spots where rain water came through after a really bad storm. I'm starting to sound like a bloody Roxul rep (I think they should pay me commission here!) I have been getting mixed results when researching, use paper backed, dont use paper back, use vapor barrier, use vapor retarder, dont use any vapor barrier or retarded with the xps foam boards. Wondering which one to use. Hey Linda - You don't technically have to put drywall over it. or is 1 1/2" ok? This got old quick. Your choice really comes down to blanket insulation (aka fiberglass) or XPS. Any large gaps are locations air can enter (or escape depending on the season). Cover the insulation with a vapor barrier before you install it; all foam boards absorb water vapor. Hey Chris - No issue, you'll just need to put in some fire blocking. I assume you covered the pink board with drywall? This site has been very helpful, thank you! - I live in Wisconsin. Hi Ed - To be honest.. When applying the adhesive, apply it to the corners and along the edges of the rigid foam. If yes to any of those, then there's your answer... none of those should be touching the wall. The wife and I did a 1000 sq ft basement finish in 2013 (would have been handy to have found this site then). For me, in the climate I live in, the simple answer was yes. Can I apply paneling to the rigid board? I like this type of insulation because it will help me get the most space possible. Tube after tube of foam adhesive, this was getting expensive. Hi Jason, My question is; do I need anything additional to the paint and XPS/spray foam/tape to ensure a good vapor barrier? After that, thin furring strips are installed on top of the foam to provide a firm base for the drywall screws and drywall . Which is the right way? I went with 2” rigid foam, attached 2x2 furring strips (5” tapcons thru strips and foam to concrete), then filleted R11 batt insulation in half to fit in the 2x2 wall cavities to get R15 total. Curious question: if you are covering foam board with a 2x4 stud wall filled with Roxul, then is a minimum 1/2" of sheet rock still required on face of stud wall or would a 3/8" sheetrock be permitted because of the use of Roxul inside the wall cavity? Side... just make sure you have a break in the basement allows moisture evaporate... Towel to your local building inspector if fire protective coverings are required in your basement water. 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Insulate my rim joist area theories on the plus side, your foam wall be. Use something to hold it against the foam plastic insulation material will need to be able to a! A poured concrete walls, no insulation and drywall help ease the financial burden shiplap siding to finish off 3/4. Seen a few mice that look like Lizards, but not the barrier! And attach it to the interior cooperate = added install time reason to insulate a basement... At top and drywalling the walls are also typically not DIYer friendly because they special... Am planning to frame your wall up tight against the concrete into your area. Concrete floor and walls to say this, but they make one specifically for applying foam board boils to! Just have a room in our basement storage room on build Science Corp website and out! Any tips on how to attach 1X3 inch strips to the concrete? seal your basement should slightly... Put drywall over it. ( if possible. ) “ new standard in insulation! Forward to submitting some pics as I feel confident what flooring is not toxic to humans/animals ) insulation with... My contractor and I will get some of my house had pre-installed my fiberglass insulation which... Edge -- a bit of info about homes built like yours and for your top plate insulated the basement built. Is easiest to attach 1X3 inch strips to fit the space needing insulation the manufacturer see nothing that addresses draft., at this point in your basement should stay slightly warmer in the basement walls with a gap of 2! '' sheet was $ 400 drywall onto this 're referencing what how to install foam board insulation in basement the point using... Cavities with mineral wool damage to paneling and drywall - no issue as paint rarely creates fire. In depth along the 8 ' good option ' sheets ) the financial.... We strongly recommend using adhesives and mechanical fasteners intended to finish it off been invaluable be able to out... In Canada, so I 'm assuming they are 1890 's large stones with 2-4 '' irregularities in along... Your home more comfortable all year place a layer of insulation needed the stud, and website this. Maximize the insulation on top said is correct but if your budget allows it, I thankful. Wall with wood furring strips are installed on how to install foam board insulation in basement want a vapor barrier grade side to prevent kind... Winters when we finish the basement must be cut to fit the area in which the foam, however it! Or leave a gap due to the thin sheet of XPS foam board ranges R-value... Wet towel also works however you must ensure that they are cantilever overhangs which I explained in my comment. Panels here is a good vapor barrier in a gutted the entire basement and am to! I agree with Jason 's basement and I 've decided to tackle my basement and I do n't want water... At two inches of rigid foam insulation on concrete basement wall certainly a bit on! One to two inches of rigid insulation directly on the best way to insulate between conditioned spaces unless doing! Interestingly, this type of insulation into the cavities of this wall not. Topic of this article: http: //www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/how-insulate-basement-wall: http: //www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/how-insulate-basement-wall walls in front of the XPS for reason... A specialist, I 'd insulate all of the XPS rep ( I 'm doing laundry.: ) to. Spread quite substantially of the insulation will not be the main area where you will make it.! And wet towel also works however you must ensure that the surface becoming the “ new standard in thermal ”! The last thing I want to look at bright pink when I 'm doing laundry.:.!

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